7 June 2022: Rawlins - C

Counsel led the witness through documents he had written or were written to cover what Sir Michael was saying. These related to his concerns about the lack of transparency in relations between doctors and pharmaceutical companies, including paid-for overseas trips. The name of Dr Peter Jones from Newcastle was mentioned in this context, but the witness did not remember any specific reference to Dr Jones. In his more general opinion, this was a problem and could lead to compromised decision-making by doctors. The witness felt there was a need to have greater control over these relations. It was also mentioned that the witness was once asked to draft a Dear Dr letter to endorse the safety of a particular drug. He refused to do so.

The witness was asked if the conditions which could be imposed on a licence applicant by the licencing authority were wide. He agreed they were. From his witness statement, it was clear that there was an awareness of the issues for blood product treatment related to both sourcing and pool sizes. It was confirmed that the licencing authority could have imposed conditions on these matters. Sir Michael interjected with a comment that he had been reading from a statement by David Owen on his desire as a Health Minster to achieve UK self-sufficiency for blood, noting that it was as early as the 1970s. He said he had never known this before. Incidentally, they knew each other since they had both been at St Thomas’ Hospital at the same time.

Again, Dr Peter Jones name was mentioned. He had accompanied a pharmaceutical company as they were seeking to obtain a licence for their product. Dr Jones made it clear he was not paid to be there. The witness was asked about the appropriateness of a practicing clinician advocating for a pharmaceutical company to the licencing authority. Sir Michael responded that it was not automatically a bad thing since it might be seen to demonstrate the clinician point of view on the efficacy of a treatment seeking a licence.

(Due to the additional short morning break, a slightly shorter lunch break was announced.)

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