InfectedConnected

Questions from core participants: When the Francis Study was received, was it costed? He could not say. Is the Government using the Inquiry as an excuse not to act, and does the Government actually want to pay compensation? He said no, the Inquiry is just the process and not an excuse. He recalled the interim payments made – again – to justify the Government’s commitment. Why could the Government make the first interim payments but not the second recommendations? He wasn’t in Government at that time of the first payments (“it wasn’t me” again), but he had agreed with doing it. He glossed over the logic of the question. Citing the expected year ahead as had been covered by Penny Mordaunt, Counsel sought to know if there is a commitment to legislate on these issues in the fourth session. He could (would) not commit “for obvious reasons” which were not obvious. The apparent inconsistency between what Penny Mordaunt had said and what the witness said were raised, but he disagreed with them...

And in walked the Prime Minister (PM), at exactly 2pm. One minute later the Chair enters. Sir Brian said a few words of thanks for the special circumstances related to access people had to endure due to the additional security arrangements. The PM gave the oath following his own religious affiliation. Counsel contextually reviewed how the witness had stated that his knowledge and involvement relied on other Ministers, however he had received more recent briefings in preparation for the appearance today. The first questions went straight to the communications from Penny Mordaunt when she was Paymaster General (PG). These highlighted in strong terms the need for action at the time and not to delay. Before answering, the witness wanted to say how he recognised this was, “An appalling scandal … people have suffered for decades” (and other fine words not backed up with action). In relation to the letters from the PG, he did not see them under the normal situation of a triage to filter the c...

Questions from core participants: Was there an investigation into the newspaper leaks? She was not aware of one, but that would have been taken forward by the Cabinet Office. (Fox and chicken coop comes to mind.) What are the main elements being used to come up with the leaked figures? She was not able to say but would get back to the Inquiry with that information. On psychological support, will the research be made publicly available, and when? She expected it would be and was expected in August. The research was understood to have been commissioned in 2022, but the need was highlighted in 2020. Why did it take so long to get to the point of commissioning the work? She said there was a process of “ongoing dialogue” after which it was decided that what was required was more ongoing dialogue. (That’s not exactly how it was phrased.) The Chair referenced himself as having, on several occasions, expressed the hope that he can recognise how everyone in the UK, including England, was benefi...

Shona Dunn is a career civil servant since 1995. As the Second Permanent Secretary in the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) she has key delegated responsibilities working to the Permanent Secretary. She is also an “Accounting Officer”, meaning she is responsible for how public funds are spent, to make sure all spending is appropriate. (Sounds like she is a chief bean counter who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing … like State-harmed lives). The witness was asked about how the implications of matters such as compensation having “strategic implications” are dealt with. There is a perspective on the impacts of proposed actions on the service, basically meaning if there is a cost in one place, something else will have to go without. Matt Hancock’s commitment to pay compensation if recommended led to the question of how the DHSC started to plan, or didn’t, to be ready to meet the then Minister’s commitment. There was no work done. Following the publication of th...

Questions from core participants: On the process of the small ministerial group (SMG) not seeing the minutes of the Permanent Secretaries meeting, is there a better way of achieving a joined-up process? He though the SMG and his officials did see the minutes, but he did not. He did agree there could be better ways of coordinating the work. Have any extra resources been added to the Cabinet Office team so it can work “at pace”, and what are these? He said there were extra personnel, including at a senior level. Sue Gray has moved on, is it Alex Chisholm the Cabinet Office Permanent Secretary, who has taken on her Inquiry related role? He confirmed this. The King’s Speech will not happen until November, which is quite a way away and will hold things up further. Can legislation happen sooner? He confirmed that Penny Mordaunt was the expert on this. With the time in between being so short and crowded, it would be difficult to push anything more into the timetable. (What happened to “politi...

St Jeremy of Quin, the Gatekeeper General, said he wanted an ambitious timetable for action, but he did not want to publish it in case it was not met. It was put to him that this was unhelpful, not least for the infected and affected who were left with a dearth of detail or hope for help being forthcoming. Counsel put it to him that it appeared as inertial and apathy, and as he faced the audience he faced, he could do nothing but concede the point. He felt he had not been in a position to disclose and ultimately to hit his internal deadline of May 2023, and it turned out it was missed. He was still not able to commit to a timetable but is “really keen” to make an announcement “as soon as possible”. Counsel reminded the witness of the impending Parliamentary timetable, the possibility of a General Election, and possibly a change of Government. He was again pressed for more than “as soon as possible”, but he admitted he is not allowed (he didn’t use that word, but that is what he meant),...

Jeremy Quin must be the nicest guy in politics … if you believe all the times people use such faint praise as part of the excuse for his obfuscation over contaminated blood compensation (or “nompensation”). Appearance-wise, there is something of the James Roberson Justice about the man. That’s not a criticism, but simply a response to his frequent whole face smile, which in its own way has irked some campaigners. He took the religious version of the oath; so, a Godfearing man. It was noted that Dame Diana Johnson was in attendance today. Counsel did the usual brief review of the witnesses’ track record in Government. There was also a very brief review of those who most recently filled his role as Paymaster General (PG) and Minister for the Cabinet Office. He had received a briefing on the Infected Blood Inquiry and the issues surrounding it when he came to post, but was aware of some of the issues through his role as a constituency MP. Right away there was reference to the statement of...

Questions from core participants: What did compensation look like to Ms Mordaunt when she wrote about “substantial” compensation? She said she did not have a clear picture of the scope of what would be involved. Citing again the concept of “justice delayed is justice denied”, can things like compensation for infected blood be “fast-tracked”? She said there were examples, such as the Covid emergency legislation, but generally there is a process to go through and that has to be allowed to happen. She felt that during her time they moved as fast as they could. Counsel pursued the potential for senior Ministers to push things faster. She recognised how this Parliament was the final one and there is pressure on Parliamentary time. She noted that the infected blood compensation is a priority for the Prime Minister. What is the impact of the turnover in those who hold the post of Paymaster General? She stated that it has not been but currently is a Cabinet role. It tends to go to more experie...

First up at the oral hearings which were not meant to happen was Penny Mordaunt. She was the Paymaster General (PG) for a while meaning she was the sponsoring Minister for the Infected Blood Inquiry. As if that title was not grand and archaic enough, her job now is Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons. On occasion she even gets to carry a sword. Sir Brian’s introduction began with a stark statement of his tripartite reasoning for these extra hearings; to consider the nature, adequacy, and timeliness of the Government’s response to the more recent calls from the Inquiry for action. (Did he mean to say, “the Government’s response or non-response …?) Ms Mordaunt’s Ministerial CV was briefly reviewed, focussing on the role of Paymaster General. At her time the role was one of dealing with civil contingencies covering Covid, leaving the EU, and a variety of other matters. It also covered being the sponsoring Minister for the Inquiry. It was noted how she may have...

Mr Stein made a small correction to his earlier evidence (a misquoted reference number). He then continued with the topic of experimentation. The later adoption of concentrates in some sites than in others, the increase in retaining blood samples for testing, and the responses to the emergence of AIDS were related specifically to the Royal Free Hospital situation involving Drs Kernov and Tuddenham. Their predecessor, Dr Dormandy, had continued to strongly advocate the use of cryo there, but she had a terminal diagnosis herself. As soon as the new doctors arrived the changes began. Due to Dr Kernov’s experience of post treatment infections, it was suggested to be an interesting career move due to the lower   number of such patients there. Could the non-infected patients be too convenient a cohort of previously untreated patients and so too good a research group to opportunistically pass on.   Reference was made to the Nuremberg Code and the basics of criminal law. Docto...