1 April 2022: Perry - E

Eyes down for core participant questions. Dr Perry says ...:

* The PFC did have responsibility for info on labels and leaflets, of course, he says.

* On home treatment, it was up to clinicians to ensure patients knew what they needed to know about products.

* PFC responsibilities to its staff was an ongoing process, with certain standard practices such as Health and Safety committes, etc. When AIDS came along, there was not much additional protective actions PFC could take. There were never any issues, or at BPL either.

* Prof Cash used his personality, meetings, evidence etc to encourage red cell use rather than plasma.

* Pool size was seen as an added issue when AIDS arrived, but it did not lead to changes. It would have compromised production.

* Potency was part of the external monitoring carried out by NIBSC. The question about proportion of PFC batches pre and post AIDS did not get answered. There was a year when NIBSC could not take monitoring samples.

* The stockpile was a result of increased plasma supply and Dr Foster's advances in improving yields. Dr Perry was surprised when he realised nobody had noticed the growing stockpile.

* Other viruses were used as known baseline models or comparators in testing for the effectiveness of inactivation experiments for factor products, eg mumps.

* An implicated batch was discovered at PFC in 2008. It came from Aberdeen. It had not been stored properly, but was still useful to gain some information.

* In vivo and in vitro testing was not done very much.

* (Sir Brian) Asked a follow-up question about informing staff of risks as knowledge grew. Yes they did and there was a GP close by who came in occasionally as required. Staff received Hep B vaccines. Everything had to be assumed to be infective. Unions were involved, but full internal systems were in place to monitor safety issues. This was reflected in the PPE that was required to be worn. He would occasionally put out staff memos with updates, for example, on the evidence emerging from the US or conferences. It was a regular topic in the internal Health and Safety meetings. He never held back in informing staff (as opposed to avoiding anxiety but not telling them). We were as vigilant as we could be. SO IF STAFF GOT TOLD EVERYTHING RIGHT AWAY, WHY TREAT PATIENTS AS ANXIETY-PRONE CHILDREN?

Some final comments from Dr Perry. He recognised the impacts on patients of the issues being investigated. The products were meant to be transformational, but had such a negative impact. He also hoped the Inquiry will get to the truth people require.

Annoncements: oral hearings return on 10th May. The timetable will be published imminently. In May, first witnesses come from DoH. Then the CJD topic features. David Mellor is coming, so is Lord Patton. In June, more Government witnessed including Charles Lister, and those involved in the HIV litigation. Then John Major, Virgonia Bottomly, Prof Tedder, among others. Into July, Lord Waldergrave, some presentations, then Sir Robert Francis in mid July. Andy Burnham next, then Government witnesses from Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland including John Reid, Hazel Blears, Eileen Keel.

The next tranche of hearings (from September 2022) get to the topic of transparency, cover-up and candour with various other Gov witnesses and presentations. A key journalist will appear, plus Caroline Flint, others politicians and civil servants. Then there will be panels of infected/affected people, time to discuss recommendations and expert sessions, etc.

Sir Brian concluded by talking about the danger of thinking the Inquiry is maybe losing sight of the issues, but the Inquiry has a strategy for the order of topics and witnesses. He is looking forward to hearing those witnesses mentioned today. In regard to any unfinished witness statements, it would be hoped to receive these by the end of  September 2022. Recommendations must be in by 20 June. On 24 Oct the submissions must be in. Have a refreshing break.

Wow. The end is in sight. Be prepared for the busy sprint to the finishing line.

Over and out.

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